Wagle gets what he deserves. After all, there should be no distinction between burglary and corruption. Only that the former affects only an individual, where as the latter is on a larger scale.

As far as I know, Govinda Joshi is more corrupt and probably has a fat bank balance than Wagle. Guys help me out here in listing the most corrupt ones that should be brought to justice. Let's focus the time after democracy as we do not even have any clues on what went on during Panchayat system.

So here I go:

1. Govinda Joshi

2. Rabindra nath Sharma

3. Bijaya Gachhadar??

4. Khum Bahadur Khadka

I have been wondering:

On what basis did the court decide to slap that sum of 2 karod-plus rupee fine
on Wagle? How did the court arrive at that number? What was/is the calculation
like? [Any Nepali tort-lawyer on Sajha?]

Were the CIAA lawyers able to make some estimate of Wagle's TOTAL (presumably)
ill-gotten wealth? If so, what is/was it, and what percentage is that fined money of Wagle's TOTAL wealth? I mean, if Wagle made over 20 karod, and has to pay only 2 karod and chan-chun, then, hey, he still made a profit (even with that 2-year jail sentence) on which he can retire happily.

****

On a serious note, I doubt that Wagle will really go to jail or even that his political career is finished. Two years later, all this WILL be forgotten and forgiven, and I wouldn't be surprised if Wagle goes on to be some sort of minister later on.

In August 2002, the CIAA raided the houses of a number of government officers on charges of corruption. At the time, it also arrested those officers. This move was applauded by everyone at the time.

Today, ALL of those officers are FREE and most are back to their old posts at bhansaar and other 'lucrative' offices.

In Nepal -- and I don't know how to explain this -- we have this curious, collective national habit of hating corruption but somehow forgetting/forgiving corrupt
people.

oohi
ashu

Ashu, your point is quite valid. What CIAA has done is pointed just at the tip of the iceberg. Wagle has been only charged on the grounds of his ill-gotton wealth and his failure to show the source of that wealth. A very important point to note here is that he has not been charged on a particular "KANDA" or any corrupt deeds. What is the rational here to believe that CIAA has prosecuted and fined Wagle in a way that will really hurt him? What grounds are there to believe that CIAA has been successful on this case when they have simply failed to actually detect his misdeed that made him so rich. Probably Wagle is rolling all over the floor and laughing at the 2 karod and something lakh and something paisa fine imposed on him. What if his misdeed is 10 or 20 or god knows how many folds more?


So guys do not feel sorry for this sorry wagle ass. He might have got away very lightly. Public's memory is so short its hard for them to remember anything from 5 yrs ago. I would bet that Wagle now has more of determination to get back his poilitical life and probably he will use a large chunk of his still well hidden wealth to buy ignorant voters to get an emphatic win in the next election.

When Ken Lay, the ex-Chairman of Enron was indicted recently, TV cameras showed
him actually being taken away in handcuffs. Ken Lay has said that he will appeal.

****

In Nepal, even after Wagle's indictment, he is still a free man. Just the other day, I saw him on TV giving a speech to journalists at a pulic function. He was that he is an
innocent man. Now, unless I have missed something, I have NOT seen him in
handcuffs yet.

Conceptually, after that indictment, Wagle could go to jail, post bail and then
make his appeal. But nothing of this sort has happened yet.

Since the CIAA and Nepal's various courts have a history of raising high expectations
only to eventually disappoint all of us again and again, I wouldn't be too quick to applaud Wagle's indictment yet. We'll have to see how this whole thing plays out.

Let's give this case a least a month.

****

While I am on this topic, I would like to say that I have found Nepal's chapter
of Transparency International to be a joke. They are busy handing out cheesy
stickers and preachy posters (and they sponsor these utterly boring radio programs
on corruption) that aim to -- ahem!! -- "raise awareness" about the ill-effects of corruption as if people made up their mind about whether to indulge in corruption
or not by reading posters or listening to radio!!

[Aside: My pet theory is: For the last 50 years, much of Nepal's development history could be written off as one long contnuous "awareness raising" exercise for edcation, health and everything else you can think of. Thanks to these various "awareness raising" programs, we have become most aware but least knowledgeable about
many issues.]

oohi
ashu

Ashu,

We need people like you to save Nepal but who is going to listen you?
You don't have money. You don't have power. You are a Harvard educated fellow, I am sure you are honest and upright but does it matter at all in a place like NEPAL?

You don't belong to a political dynasty. You were not born to a family like the Koiralas. For example, after Girija the mantle of nepali congress will be passed on to the other Koiralas - SUJATA, SHEKAR, SASANK. They might be highly corrupt, morally bankrupt people but still they are all set to become our leaders cause they have money - 100s of crores of ill-gotten wealth and they will use that money to buy anything they wish - from power to people. CAN YOU STOP THEM?



Also please read an interview of Sasank Koirala in Spotlight.

http://www.nepalnews.com.np/contents/englishweekly/spotlight/2004/jul/jul02/national4.htm

Oz_Guy Matey,

I am also legal expert. Now Wagle related matter is not tort. This is a fraudulent piece of information to you. Wagle has been charged under Jangi Kanun and not Muluki Ain. In other words, the former being criminal law of the land and not the civil code (Roman code. Now, corruption is not tort like some idiot makes you beleive it is. Corruption comes under the criminal laws of Nepal. The penalty imposed can be jail as well as fine. The range of fine would had been reasonably formulated by the Nepalese Parliament. So the discretion to fine with exemplary fine to send a message or a combination of compo sized penalty is up to the Nepalese ghusiya Baje khalak led judicial bench. This is my generalisation. I was not at trail so I do not know how they came to such small amount of penalty, when then Wagley Bahun amassed over US $ 30 million and still does not go to jail. On top of that lunatics trying to critisise my pet organisation the Nepalese transparency branch...is really a swasti shree mula for his King Gyanendra I must say.

Correction of facts.

Nepalese Penal Code is termed Jungi Faujdari Mudda and Civil Code is termed Nijamati Mudda.

For example, if Reverend Father Moro of Godavari Alu and Lasun Association did a karani and balatkar of a balak preveiously known as Ookhate Pahar then it is a crime. To take ghus holding a government post alos is a crime. Thus, it falls under jungi faujdari kanun and the alleged perpetrators tried under that generic ain sawaal.

Nepaltara, I sense you are trying to provoke someother player in the discussion though you have addressed the posting in my name. I would not wanna go into that as I am quite new here and do not know all the personalities here.

Back to the posting. Okay Wagle can get away without cuffs because it is not tried on a civil law ( I assume you are right as I am not a legal expert here), but does he have the rights to walk free now on the assumptions that he is going to appeal in the supreme court (which to my knowledge hasn't happened so far). Who is going to be responsible if he just disappears let's say right now for the sake of argument. As far as the penalty is concerned, I would like to see at least 10 years of jail term and "sarbaswa haran" to corrupt people who have misused their very high public positions.

*****************

On a different note, I gather you are from S.A. Any chance you know Rajendra Pandey? He is my senior in School.

nepaltara, you just posted the above secs before my posting so i missed it. What are you actually trying to imply? Both are crimes and you also claim for the both nature of the crimes to be tried by the same law. I thought you said there were two laws to deal with these two different crimes.

Is it some typos or am I failing here to undestand. And this actually makes me question your point of earlier posting.

i dont understand, why do ppl keep comapring Nepal and America??

Lawyers in Nepal are debating whether Wagle should be thrown into jail or not. Obviously, the issue is not as clear-cut as one would assume.

******

Garibjanata wrote:

"Ashu, We need people like you to save Nepal but who is going to listen you?
You don't have money. You don't have power. You are a Harvard educated fellow, I am sure you are honest and upright but does it matter at all in a place like NEPAL?"


Well, I don't know about that.
Al I know is such sentences make me nervous.

In all honesty, I have never really thought of myself important enough to "save Nepal" or make other people listen to me. I mean, I do what I can, and if people like it, that's fine.

If they don't like it, then, that's also fine . . . and so it goes -- the process of thinking about Nepal and doing work in Nepal, for what it is worth.

For now, I have CHOSEN to live and work in Nepal, and, despite all kinds of poltical problems, I cannot imagine a happier place to be for myself at the moment. It's been
fun getting to know all sorts of people here, asking questions, quietly doing some
(what I hope is) solid work professionally and learning an enormous amount and
all that . . . One advantage of living in Nepal is that you are never too far away -- literaly and metaphorically -- from all the concerns of almost all these Sajha
topics :-(

I have long been a poponent of creating small, small positive changes here and there, and let those changes, over time, add up to bigger changes. But many Nepalis appear to have no patience for that kind of thinking, and, some -- like Baburam -- want radical changes now, even if that means resorting to brutal violence.

Still, all said and done, my attitude is certainly critical but NOT cynical.
I do remain an OPTIMIST when it comes to Nepal.
The country is too young (in terms of population) to be able to turn it around within a generation -- and that's the hope.

And so, Nepal does have this enormous potential to be good and to be well if only
we can get our collective act together .. . and that too going to happen someday.

oohi
ashu

Garibjanta,

Mostly ppl who have great degress, and have VERY HIGHER Education than normal people, , just like to comment, because like everybody says, politics is a dirty game for them ..OF course here and there good wrks goes,(every normal being does something small that helps to change the world, but thats our responsibility its not a Sacrifice) but leading a country is just far OUR OF THERE REACH. when Einestein was asked to be President of Isreal?? he said, "my equation will live with me forever but politics wont", i dont konw y wud he say that, but he did :)

Oz_Guy,

I do not know Rajendra Pandey because of the decree put on me by a Kommunist Pyuthane called Deepak Bista and he supported by leftist Human Rights and Equal Opportunity Commission. I am in path to destroy the outfit soon. In the past me and my Abo bung mate called Brady took away its fang making legal history as that it used to be a quasi judicial institute like the Nepe CIAA and a law into itself. I am glad that I do not want to contact corrupted Nepalese by the said Bista (Jaisi Bahun of Pyuthan).

Now for Suo Moto that you have requested to me (or simply so cause of my logic):

Here it is.

Penal Code means criminal jurisdiction or jungi faujdari ain and civil code means nijamati ain or civil jurisdiction and tort is part of it. Tort means civil wrong like OJ Simson being tried by the State for murder and only the State can prosecute the alleged like Ghus being a crime. However, only in common law countries like USA, UK and so on civilians like you and me can also sue for damages for murder or injury or any civil wrong. Again, remember that OJ Simson was sued for civil wrong by Goldman and his ex-wife's family and own millions of dollars as punitive damages. There you have it. Now Nepal is not a common law country per judicial administration in contrast to India is a common law nation. Nepal uses ancient Bahun based Hindu law and some Romanic codes that is heavily prescribed per Shree Teen Maharaj Jung Bahadur ka Mulki Ain and later modified in 2020 or 2025 BS by King Mahendra etyadi....I am sorry that I forgot thelegal dates.

As I said, it is called judicial discretion or up to the judges to allow bail to the said Wagle pending appeal or instant to penitiary (jail) detention. may be he was asked to provide surety of large amount of cash and guranteed by his other mates and so on and so forth. Who knows as the CIAA itself is less then transparent and full of bajes. If it was Australia the legal procedure wuld be fully transparent and accountable. That is the difference between a democratic nation and Nepal a basket case that will never ever progress even under a maha OPTIMistic and Myopic Harvard turn coat self styled nidar pleader MAHA LEADER GAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA way.

de bene esse

Ceterus Paribus or of all things being equal then for Ozland it is okay and not for Nepal with various scenario testing and planning per harms way.

What does that mean?

Well, no assumptions and in real terms in a common law country there is separation of power, What is that? Well, it is that judiciary, executive and parliaments are all separate and cannont intervene in the functions of others in USA or UK and so on and so forth. parliament makes the law and if its power is ultrivires or in excess then the Sumpreme Court can declare it unconstitutional and also ruled out the executive. However, parliament is the most powerful of the institutions under Westminster styled democracy. The chief legal officer is the Attorney-General and he is an elected member of the parliament. He is assited by Director of Public Prosecutions (to try only crime) and Solicitor-General in other matters such as civil jurisdiction. All fine.

However, Nepalese Costitution is a bastard between common law and Hidu law and Napoleonic or Roman codes. It has no separation of powers. In that I mean Attorney-General looks after all civil and criminal jurisdictions. He chooses and pleases as he sees fit in all things Nepalese law (Ghus is rife).

There you have it that Nepe law has no check and balances in terms of comparing and contrasting per this short analysis.

I now rest my case mutandis mutandis.

888 I smell something burning here.
It is no question if Wagle be procecuted or hanged, it should be used to deter others from commiting the same crime.
Mind you, an individual alone is not guilty it is the surrounding and their hype of pomp show at cost of tax payers money that is the cause.
Hence small changes as an individual and organizations will definitely accumulate over a long run, thanks for your pious intention a..hu.

Ladies and Gentleman,
Good Morning,

I am also following the CIAA and its activities for last four yrs. Present activities of CIAA is one of the example that what legally empowered institute can do, if it intends to do. Whatever CIAA does is within the limit of our present legal system (and within the system there is, I believe a grey area, where ppl play their dirty trick to get some favor.)

Now, I have some curiosity, some of them already raised by fellow sajhaites in their posts above.

1. What happened to the newspapers/TV, radio, why they are not giving details of Wagles case and Courts decision? This news is positive news for Nepali ppl. Why journalist love to give details of negative news only. Is debate being carried out, in Nepal, about pros and cons of this decision?
2. What happens to so called "nagarik samaj" why arnt they digging in this case, so that a public pressure can be generated against the "soft decisioný by the court within the grey area?

3. Why the written details of "faisala" is not being made public by the court in such a publicly interested case. When the different institutions of Nepal will start to respect general publics "need to know" right?
4. I think there is a "kanun" in Nepal whereby the decisions, if not considered secret by the state, must be sent for archive where everyone can have access after following some "procedures".

5. What was the basis of 2.3 million?

Well, probably most of the ppl will ask the same question? And, asking question is not a big deal.

I agree with ashu that Nepal does have enormous potential. Nepalese are hard working ppl. We just have a problem of Potentially Immature/Morally bankrupt/irresponsible ppl at higher level.

We survived the two giant (southern and northern neighbor), we are trying to be competitive with them.
Small market next to two big markets. Nearest harbor approx 1000 km. Small productive land are few of our problems. These economic hurdles can be overcome by creative planning, attractive tax/excise/custom system and producing cheap energy. But, for this, first of all we need publicly responsible government lead by gal/guy who has "guts" to do something.

Epoch of the Epitome and Epoch of an Economist par Masters "but for" lack of strategies ala bing-fa and lack of Executive level management vision based on walk the talk and talk the walk.

What does that mean?

Only talkfest and fantasies and fung shuies...No.

I mean incremental changes are possible only one knows how to conduct audits of the consumer/costomers needs and wants.

The man is an eco Ebaje or ubaje only chasing lunatic utopian ideas based on Harvard yankee standardisation due processes. However, nepe AAMA does not need MCHarvard ebaje incremental change managementmp progress. What nepal needs is ebaje innovative customised drastic creative Shumpeterian destruction minus ebajes or ubajes.

One can contribute SMARTly aND i NEED revist the whole thing again.

Oohiji can contribute his way and he has an unique place providing he knows his capabilities and core competencies and leverage it to value creation that is pull based via the meeds and wants of the customer/consumer.

Otherwise, the learned foolishn talkfest will make him another sucked victim of NEPAL PANA hard basket case.

It was written and it shall be done CETERUS PARIBUS.

I think Nepes are the laziest people based on their culturally ubaje based paternalistic utopian/fatalistic society. That is the truth and more baje u or e ttoes come out the more questions I have for them and make their tupis maha thado(das is blessing in disguise for their next bungy jumping for maha hara hara ganga mantra). No.

Somebody here in Sajha did repeatedly said if you can't convience, confuse them.

Getting confused in this early morning blue

Dear Oz guy,
Rajendra Pandey used to be here in Adelaide worked for Motoralla (spl?).
But he is in Sydney. If you did not get in touch with him, please let me I will pass his e-mail address and phone number.

Good luck

Deepak