Friends, brothers, sisters, fellow human beings…
It is alarming to see just how many of you the media has taken complete control over… Forgive my observation if it appears to be rather unpleasant, my intention is simply to present my view for an unbiased examination of the issue.
The immigration issue is not merely of border-crossing Mexicans or of Nepalese who assume their position illegally. I am afraid that this is issue is ultimately an issue of poverty and perhaps of the direct impact of globalization. It is a painful reality to accept, however it is a reality regardless.
For those of you who struggled for years to please this bureaucratic system and have attained the prized ‘Green Card’. I must say that I am incredibly proud of you. I understand the struggles that you must have gone through and the sacrifices you have taken to get to where you are today - a legal participant in the economic monstrosity of America. I know, because I myself have been through this.
Is it healthy however for one to protect the sanctity of the road traveled and shun any other roads that could be paved for others who were less fortunate? I use this term ’less fortunate’ loosely as I do know that there are those who exist in a rut due to their own doing. However, I know that the majority of illegal immigrants are here because they really don’t see another way to survive or to better their situation.
I am sure that even the best of the ‘Green Card’ holders had to succumb to some form of ‘under the table’ jobs during their tenure. Did you feel as strongly about this scenario then?
No one wants to be an ‘illegal’. With this in mind, can we ask ourselves why there are so many here who are? Money. Desperation. Survival. The basics of humanity.
I know several ‘illegals’ who are here working the nastiest of jobs and earning a slave’s wage so that they could provide for their families back home. Have we forgotten our humanity? Do we really prize our status more than we do our fellow human beings?
My friend, there are several people who were either ignorant of the bureaucratic processes that one must take in order to become legalized and frankly even more people who just didn’t have the financial means to pursue such a matter - regardless of how highly prized the goal would have been.
No one decides to become an ‘illegal’. The fact of the matter is that for many, many people - there was no choice. I must then ask - are you afraid that the prize that you worked so hard to deserve will depreciate in social value if others are afforded the same opportunities that you were? Yes opportunities dear friend…
No matter how proud you may be of being a ‘self-made man,’ I suspect that somewhere along the way someone helped you get to where you are today. Please correct me if I am wrong and I will humbly apologize for the presumption…
I do know that if you are a Nepali, you would have had to buy an airline ticket at one point while you were in Nepal and unless your parents were well-off, you had to make some serious sacrifices to do this - almost going bankrupt in the process. If your parents are well-off and financed everything for you, then you have no idea what the rest of our brothers and sisters have been through and your perception of life itself is already biased - stripping you of the right to judge anyone else’s reasons and hardships, unfortunately.
I see that you have embraced the politics of America and are looking forward to being sworn-in as an American. That is great! I also observed your adoption of the American Pop-Culture and somehow you have convinced yourself that you are a Thug (?). Have you forgotten the Nepali blood that runs through your veins? Have you abandoned the ideals that your parents have attempted to engrain in you?
My dear friend - my request is simple at best. I am asking you to afford everyone their own reasons. If you were to hear every illegal immigrants reasons for being so, it will overwhelm you.
I understand that this is a problem that needs to be addressed. I support any and all forms of amnesty for illegals - if this means that thousands of our brothers and sisters could finally work within their intellectual capacity. That they will be afforded all the opportunities that you and I have worked so hard to achieve.
Well, my final thought is that I may have misjudged your beliefs here and I understand that I do not know you as a person, an individual and perhaps that is why I do not comprehend your approach to this issue. With this, I hope to be granted the same from you.
Let us not kick those who are not at the top of the mountain with us, simply cause they aren’t. It would all be better if we actually helped each other. Perhaps, if you decided to advise those of our brothers and sisters who are here on how remain in legal terms and how to seek legal advise and how to follow in your tremendous footsteps - we could all be legal.
Believing everything you hear on TV makes you a follower of all that they say is worth following. This is how we are ultimately controlled. Look at the bigger picture and most importantly, don’t forget your roots.

Very well said Scrabble,

I agree whole heartedly. The fact that immigrants are often the one's screaming the loudest about closing the borders is a not so much baffling as it is enraging.

Let's hope that better sense and a bit of humanity prevails- the humanity ought to easy enough for an administration that exhorts the virtue of the word of God, but the sense part of the equation is what I have my doubts on :-)

Mr. Scrabble,
Your points have strong merit and I couldn't agree with you more. With that being said I have to tell you that your perspective is coming from a highly emotional plateau and your recommendations are very naive. My friend, you may go to heaven with the way you view and live life, but you won't be able to govern a country or sustain an economy. These are your songs of innocence not your songs of experience.

You have to understand where America is coming from. The psychology of success and prosperity can be very complicated. It is like looking up to the sky and seeing a sword loosely tied to a rope that you think can break at any moment. When you are extremely successful your psyche can become very fragile and you are always afraid that the sword dangling above your head can fall on you any moment. To sustain progress you have to make practical decisions, ceteris paribus. (Keep all else equal, human sentiments, ethics and morals.) With the Immigration situation, why is it immoral for a country to want to secure its own borders and preserve whatever homogeneity it has left? Giving amnesty to all illegal aliens will encourage more immigration and more chaos in the next decade. The whites don't want to lose their majority here. Why should they want to? I mean would you want Nepal to be predominantly Indian? In today’s nuclear world, you have to try different techniques to ensure the safety of the country. If you really look at the way immigration has increased in this country, it is insane. Where in any other part of the world can you see such an abnormal influx? Giving temporary work visas to illegals is the best thing that the government can do, given the contributions of illegals to country so there is a give and take process. But eventually half of these people probably will be sent back. There has to be discipline. Look at how population control has helped China? You can argue that the government is imposing its will on people's god given rights to reproduce however many children they want to, but this rule has helped the country. Arguing right and wrong is redundant after a while. You see, what was right or moral 100 years ago is not right or moral anymore, and what might be a tradition or an ideal today, might not be one tomorrow. The effect of Illegal Immigration on the welfare state is a cause for concern. The baby-boomer retirement strain to pension funds and social security is occurring concurrently with illegals and unemployed Americans dependence on social programs. This has to be addressed. Bush is taking a practical businessman approach to this problem, but these illegals have to demonstrate an ability to assimilate, learn the language and have some sense of affection for the country. To be frank, some illegals don't give a rats ass about the US as long as they make some money. That has to change. I mean some of these guys came into the country without legal rights and now, they walk around parading with their national flags claiming to what right? This is an issue of poverty, but who is to blame for that? Their country of origin's inability to provide for their citizens due to corruption and many other factors. We can go off on this discussion forever. The US cannot continue to import poverty in this type of unregulated manner.

I absolutely and wholeheartedly agree with everythingzen2's post above. First and foremost, I voted for John Kerry, and I am slightly left of the dial on most social issues. I am okay with gay marriage, pretty much pro-abortion(in the sense that it's people's decision, although I don't support it myself--in other words, I am pro-choice), pro affirmative action(however, I only support affirmative action for blacks), pro stem-cell research, and the list goes on and on. I will have to rehash what I said earlier since I have repeated this point ad nauseum, but let me do it one more time anyway. Most polls suggest that Americans, whether liberal or conservative, are predominantly against illegal immigration for the simple reason that many illegal immigrants have partaken in criminal activities like drug trafficking, prostitution, robbery,etc. Child prostitution is also a cause for concern. Drugs are smuggled across the border on a daily basis as well, no doubt. The second main concern is assimilation. People of all stripes have come to America, assimilated and have become a part of the mainstream American culture. Another problem here is that never in the history of America has the volume of influx of immigrants been as high as it has been in the last few decades. Thus the problem arises that these immigrants may never assimilate in America. Only on friday, this one congressman from California seemed to suggest on Real Time with Bill Maher that there are millions of Americans of working age who don't have jobs. My other beef with illegal immigration is that these jobs might as well alleviate the unemployment problem by a lot. Furthermore, if you are a humanitarian, listen to this one point. Hundreds of thousands of Mexicans die when crossing the border due to starvation, thirst and hunger. To nip this problem in the bud, the most humanitarian act is to ensure that Mexicans don't try to cross the borders in the first place by securing our borders.
Now as to the media, my personal observation is that the media is softballing the immigration issue. Unless by the term "media" the reference is only to right-wing outlets like Fox News and the Washington Times, and people like Lou Dobbs and Bill O'Reilly, one cannot, by any stretch of the imagination, conclude that the media as an aggregate is taking the anti-immigration stance. Dare I suggest that the media is slightly on the liberal side on most issues? Why exactly is Fox News so popular? Might it be because there is a dearth of rightwing media outlets in America? PBS, the public channel, has been pretty much liberal in the past. NPR is pretty liberal as well. Sure, there are talk shows that are right wing, but aside from that I think the media is pretty much liberal. Hey, I have no problem with that, as I don't see myself voting for Republicans unless they nominate John McCain, Rudy Guiliani or Condoleeza Rice(I don't like her, but I'll definitely vote her because I would love to see a black president at the helm).

Now I have been pondering about the amnesty question for a while, and this is what I believe. People thought that the 1980's amnesty would do magic on the illegal immigration issue. It turns out that the problem only worsened and the stream of illegal immigration has never been higher as it has been in the past few years. However, I am FOR AMNESTY, ONLY IF the government is going to do the following:
1. Erect a huge wall that would serve as a barrier against illegal immigration.
2. The military should keep an eye on the borders to put illegal immigration to a halt.
3. Illegal immigration is made a felony. As it is now, it is a civil offense. They need to make it a criminal offense.
4. Expedite the deportation of illegal immigration. Get rid of red tapes and government beauracracies.

And what about the Al Qaeda??? Does that not concern you? What if organizations like these decide to sneak dirty bombs from South of the border? I live in the District of Columbia. Why would I want such a thing to happen? I do not want a wakeup call to come in the form of a mushroom cloud. The Bush administration's supposed strength is security. If so is the case, they need to prove it. 90% of goods coming to our ports aren't checked. The American borders are virtually open. This is a concern for people living in the DC area, which is always a prime target for criminals.

thugged out, u are weird..

Note: Not edited nor reviewed or revised. Written in one attempt so might have grammatical or spelling errors.


Hey, Thugged out and scrabble,
I completely disagree with all your jerk contents and weird thoughts.
First of all, let's start from the origin of United States or America. Who are the real Americans? If you say, these whites are real Americans then I would say that you are dumb ass and you haven't read history in your high school and if you know it,
then you are denying that they aren't real americans. The real americans are the native Americans. But did you ever consider the majority of native americans? I guess they are even less than the population of Indians. So there comes another question, how can you consider yourself american? If you think that you are american because you are born over here, then you obviously got schizophrenia (mental disease) or you are an asshole. Being born on U.S doesn't mean you are american because you don't carry the same tradition, culture and values of american citizen as your ancestors belong to overseas. So to be american, you should carry the tradition, values and culture of American society which will come into effect after 3 or 4th generation. In addition to this, talking about the illegal immigration, I openly argue in favor of them and speak that there is not enough security on the border line of Mexico-U.S but it’s not totally right to deport all the illegal immigrants. Who do you blame not to have good security on the border? Illegal immigrants or the Americans? Of course Americans because they are the ones who guard against illegal immigrants and if they are not doing good job, then call bush to organize meeting and fire their lazy asses. Considering the illegal immigrants living inside U.S, what's so illegal or the immigrants if they are thriving and struggling to sustain their life. Can you consider illegal or inhuman if snake eats a frog? As a matter of fact you can't because snake survives eating frog.
Similarly frogs consume flies so what these animals are doing is they are trying to fed themselves to live. Similarly, these illegal immigrants are busting their ass off to put food into mouth. It's a well known fact that they get paid minimum wage than they get paid legally. So Why all Americans are against them because they see them earning money. Did you ever realize or look over what the illegal immigrants do for survival? They work the third level work as if they are like robots without break and give 101% to their work and only they get paid the half of the
average american wage. Think and rationalize? Who are the people who do construction jobs, build canals, roads, and house people in U.S? Without doubt, they are black americans and illegal americans. Americans are ashamed to do this job and if they do, they will quit after a month or two?
Do you ever have or had a white american friend whose job categorises house-keeping, labor construction, sewage disposal? Well I haven't. Then who are doing these jobs then? Illegal immigrants is the best answer and you just won a million dollar.
In addition to this, I would raise a general but profound question? Why the small business like gas-stations, liquor restaurant are run by foreign immigrants? Well there are plenty of reasons to be discussed. First of all, the small business market is competitive. You would have to put the prices lower than 30% to run the store without debt or mortgage. So if you are pricing the stuff below 30% then what is the saving for yourself? For instance, you sold 6 pack beer priced $6.99 including tax, do the math and you will get like $1 or $2 as a profit. As being American and following the federal wage policy, you need to pay at least $7 as he will get $6 excluding tax per hour. But if you pay him $7 an hour you can't manage secure future because you are spending all your profits on them and left will be just for you to pay your bills and expenses? So now where did you bank your saving? Well it all went into employees’ pocket. If you ever experience going to liquor store or gas station, then you will probably see, only 3 or 4 hours of the whole day is busy and other remaining hours are just like 1 person every 10 minutes and even
less than that. Now consider that it's a real busy liquor store. Then if you hire american, first of all, you at least need 6 or 7 $7 paid american employees as two or 3 can't bust their
ass to run the store. If only two or three American did, you need to pay the overtime wage which is double or 1/3 of the actual wage and that turns out to be $12 excluding tax. You can't
run the store paying $12 per hour where the average profit is $12 per hour where you already paid your two american employees $14 per hour. So actually, if you are a real math geek then you are in -x direction or running debt or soon to be bankrupted. In addition to this, you also need to provide them vacation pay and increase it every 3 months? So where will you earn the money to fed those monsters? What is the solution? The only solution is to sell the store to the people who can handle it? Who are the people who can handle it? None other than legal immigrants. So for the legal immigrants to survive and run the store profitably, they are bound to hire illegal immigrants because either they need to sell the store to some one or bust their ass themselves 24 hrs a day. So they are bound to hire illegal immigrants to work for them though they are also in great risk of getting imprisoned. As a matter of fact, do you ever read newspaper or listen to radio? If you are educated enough to read, then you would see the bankrupted news of big companies even ford, GM? Do you have answer why they got bankrupted? The answer is, they can't afford to pay top wage to American employees as according to their employees’ requirement.
I also have another good question. Why are American companies migrating to China day by day? Take any car company example which is not in China or take any software company that does not have branch in India. The reason is Cheap Labor. Because of that, Americans are losing their jobs and economy is degrading low by low. So who is to blame for that? Illegal Immigrants or American policy? Well it's american policy which Bush started and is still running his policy like hell. If Bush had little brain, he wouldn’t’ shift the American companies to China but instead legalize those illegal immigrants to work on cheap wage including tax. So what I am saying, though I am not a illegal immigrant, I am in favor of those hard workers who thrive to survive. A good lesson from MARSHAL 67: “Don't blame others, accuse yourself first”. “Live and let others live”.

Thugged out,

You and I are going to have to agree to disagree on this :-) but, I can't resist making one point to your assertion, " Might it be because there is a dearth of rightwing media outlets in America?" Do you seriously believe that to be the case? Bill O'Reilly and Lou Dobbs get special mention because they have been working overtime in painting a picture of good for nothing immigrants who come here to steal the jobs of good, hardworking American's. Never have they spoken about the many sacrifices and good deeds of these hard working, committed parents and yooungesters who take enormous risks just to ensure the safety and well being of their children and loved ones.

Bill O'Reilly screams endlessly about the criminal elements within the immigrant population but have you ever heard of him say a darn word against the KKK or the rest of the white population in jail? Does he just not see the rate of crimes committed by White people?

As to the supposed dearth of left leaning media folks, what about Joe Scarborough, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, and the maniac from Florida who had his Mexican maid buy prescription drugs from 15 - 30 stores to support his pain med addiction habit??

As far as the Drug trade is concerned, how is that related to Immigration? The drug deal is alive and thriving because of the Colombian and the Mexican cartels. The people that have recieved the most notoriety in terms of drug smuggling within the U.S are NOT the illegal immigrants but the Americans who work with the Border Secuurity and the police ofifcers who are sworn to "serve and protect", NOT the illegal immigrants.

As to Child abuse: Come on!!..that's one HUGE generalization. The people that are prosecuted the most for child abuse happen to be blonde hair, blue eyed men of American soil..where did you get the notion that it's just the illegals that are responsible for the child abuse that goes on. The population that is charged the most for child abuse in the U.S and those that keep the child sex trade alive are just as likely to be white males between the ages of 23 - 65 as any other racial demographic.

As to Employment: I know I've debated this with you before and I hate to have to regurgitate the same things again and again so please refer to the thread you started and re-read my comments there...they are still as valid as they were on the day I typed them :-)

Finally with respect to the humanitarian aspect of it all: The most humane thing to do would be to ensure that those crossing the border have access to water and life saving medicines etc. Closing the border with Mexico will only help speed up the Economic collapse of the U.S which we are already precipitiously close to thanks to the hair brained schemes of this cowboy that currently occupies the highest office in the land!!

get a life ..........

"First of all, let's start from the origin of United States or America. Who are the real Americans? If you say, these whites are real Americans then I would say that you are dumb ass and you haven't read history in your high school and if you know it,
then you are denying that they aren't real americans. The real americans are the native Americans."

The issue is not about who is a true American or not. This whole native american card that people use to make white people look bad is overly played out. I mean had there been no Invasion into the New World, what would America have become? The whites killed and slaughtered, no doubt, but so did the Indians and every bloody race out there to get power. The history and progression of man is one filled with violence, this has been well documented. But at least the invaders made something out of a New World that was previously filled with snake eaters and fire worshipers. The horror house that was America eventually transformed into the formation of the most "Humane" constitution ever created. Incorporating ideals of the likes of John Locke, Rousseau, Montesquieu and Adam Smith, American constitution and capitalism is still a model for todays society.For all the critics of the American way, How would you do it? History has proved time and time again that order comes out of chaos. This may sound like an awful way to rationalize things but it is true. Look how the British Invasion helped India and Hong Kong. Think what could have happened had the British invaded Nepal.

How much do gas stations contribute towards US GDP? It is Marginal. There will be another way. Bottom line, give the illegals a work visa, so they can participate in the society in a proper way, and then allow certian qualified people to gain a path towards citizenship. SECURE YOUR BORDERS. Send the rest back home, and with the money they have ,they can start a business or something back home as Bush suggested.

Quick comment, because I'm busy right now. Will post tomorrow, if I have the time. Gangs like MS-13(members are mostly illegal immigrants from El Salvador) are inextricably tied to drug smuggling and prostitution. Heck, there was a rumor going around that Al Qaeda was trying to recruit these gangs in order to move accross the border. I stand by my comment that illegals are indeed connected to drug trafficking. Furthermore, even if these criminals go back to Mexico once they're done with their business, and even if they aren't here for the long haul, they still are undocumented.

P.S. Looks like I was wrong about the Al Qaeda ties. Turns out it was just a rumor. FBI investigated it. Anyways, longer post tomorrow evening if possible.